Forum:Valonne/Valonian vocabulary
As acting project coordinator for Valony, I have started a sandbox with some Valonian vocabulary that may be used in mapping: Valonian exonyms, names for religions, rivers...
For the following elements, having a Valonian equivalent has not been that easy. I'm proposing some solutions but others may well fit even better. Feel free to share your opinion, even though you're not well-versed in French:
Valonian exonyms
Archanta
Federal States
Based on US/American - américain/états-unien, should we have état-fédérien/ne and/or archantéen/ne?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
I use "étatier" as a derivative of "état" to refer to people of the Federal States. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Kartumie
Should we have Cartumie with a /y/ sound or Cartoumie with a /u/ sound?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
I think Cartoumie sounds better than Cartumie (I've put "Kartoumie" streets outside Valonne already) but at the end, Cartumie with a /y/ sound will make it sound more valonian than Cartoumie so my choice will go for Cartumie. --Sweetykid (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I kind of agree with your first feeling: Cartoumie sounds better than Cartumie. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- AgreedImperator (talk) 00:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
I think it depends on how Kartumia was discovered to the Valonians. Kartumia has similar spelling in French to the city of Khartoum, Sudan. "Cartumie" is my preference if the Valonians named the continent; otherwise, "Cartoumie" (like Khartoum) if the Valonians called the Kartumians what they call themselves. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Tarephia
Novakia
Should we have novaque as we have Slovaquie/slovaque or novaquien? As Novakia is small and not a neighbouring country, it's rather unlikely we'll have a rue des novaques compared to rue des pléviens
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi! I am happy about considering my country to name a street in Nemans! But, as I know almost nothing about french language, I can not say a word about "novaque" or "novaquien"... Ah, just to mention, there are not neighborhoods to any specific nationality in Slovech, but there is a cultural center and a park close to the valonian embassy. -- BMSOUZA (talk) 01:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, basically, French has the equivalent of Slovak (slovaque) instead of Slovakian (slovaquien does not exist). I guess Portuguese works as Spanish with only eslovaco and no eslovacano, if I'm not mistaken. Hence, novaque/novaco (Valonian pronounced like Novak Djokovic) instead of navaquien/novacano, that was the question. As said, Novakia and Valony not being neighbours, it's unlikely the demonym would have been used. Rue de Novaquie as Rue du Brésil makes sense, but Rue des Novaques as Rue des Brésiliens would be sound "weird" as there has not been large historical Brazilian/Novakian population or personal interaction with France/Valony. Compare it to the numerous rue/avenue/boulevard des italiens, allemands or belges in France. --Aiki (talk) 07:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
Uletha
Astria
In French, V-S-C (where V is for vowel and C for consonant) tends to switch to V̂-C. Should we have Astrie or Âtrie? And consequently, should we have astrien/astrienne or âtrien/âtrienne? Note that we may still have Âtrie but astrien, or reverse.
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Âtrie and âtrien(ne) both sound good to me. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I like Âtrie and âtrien(ne) too. --Sweetykid (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
Kalm
Kalm equivalent is rather tricky as the direct one would be Calme as in calm.
- Using French phonetics, we could have: Kalm -> Chalm (as in caput->chef or canus->chien k->tʃ->ʃ) and later a palatisation of the l Chalm -> Le Chaum or Chaüm (as in saltus->saut salva->sauge al->aw->o) pronounced /ʃa.ɔm/, with a potential adjective chahomais/chahomaise.
- A complete exonym as we have, IRW, Deutsch/German/Allemand/Tedescho...
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Chaum sounds good, but Chahomais look kind of funny on the eye. Are there any potential corruption to make it appear simpler? Like Chomais? ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Est-ce qu'il y a beaucoup de chômage au Chaum? Chaum is a good name, but my first association with Chaum would be unemployment because of the wordplay. I like that chômer is derived from Latin caumāre (“to rest during the heat”), so there's an opportunity for a derivative of caumāre. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Religions
Imamism
Should we have imamiste or imamique as an adjective equivalent to musulman?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
Why not simply Imamisme, similar to Imanisme ? Imperator (talk) 21:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, the question is just about the adjective? The word is indeed Imamisme, copied on Ingrean Imamism. It would be used in location such as "Centre culturel imamique/imamiste". --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- Imaniste would seem the more regular choice. Humanisme - Humaniste, Imanisme - Imaniste Imperator (talk) 17:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Ivarian
Should we have hibérain(e) (ɛ̃/ɛn or ɛn in South of France) or hibéran(e) (ã/an or ane in South of France) as an adjective equivalent to juif/ve - israélite? Likewise, should we have Hibérainisme or Hibéranisme?
--Aiki (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- If following trends in some other countries on OGF, we can have it get derived from the country of Ivira (Iviron). ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure if 'Ivarian' is commonly used in OGF—Ibriyim seems a lot more common. Regardless, I recommend against the usage of either due to their clear derivation from עִבְרִי (ivrí/ibri)', the Hebrew word for 'Hebrew'. Such names are reminiscent of those from earlier OGF eras, and I'm sure we can work together to come up with a more creative name. --IiEarth (talk) 15:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks to you both. It does raise the question of having, or not, a separate OGF-word as we now how Plevian, Ingrean, Valonian...If based on Iviron, I supposed, we would have Ivironnais or Évironnais. If based on older Ivira, maybe Iviran(e), Éviran(e), Ibiran(e), Ébiran(e), hiviran(e), héviran(e), hibiran(e) or hébiran(e), the "h" standing for the rough breathing and original ע. Maybe I should ask other French speakers here, but the initial "ivi" sounds a bit weird. I tend to replace either i by an é to avoid the repetition, maybe it's just me. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Would there be a transposition of sounds from Iviron to Ivrion if it were to help the Valonians pronounce the name of Iviron? Or maybe the second syllable is dropped entirely: Ivron. Chazeltine (talk) 13:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
Odonyms
Political system
IRW France, many main streets or squares are de la République. Though many Rue or Place Royale still exist in France, a lots of them have been "republically" renamed. If Valony is a republic, I'd assume many ways tagged highway: will be named accordingly. Should we consider Valony a republic?
--Aiki (talk) 04:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Personally, I am fine with either a monarchy or republic. Republics are more common nowadays, a monarchy could make things interesting. Either way I think we can approach the street issue by just ignoring the 'republicanisation', so to call. I think it would be more interesting to have both the sense of historical monarchism and present-day republicanism coexist. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 19:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- Agree, let's ignore 'de la République places for the time being. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've noticed we already had a few generic odonyms in Nemans that can be used as de la République: de Valonne (Valony Street...), National(e) (National Street...), de l'Unité (Unity Street...). I'm unsure for de l'Indépendance if Valony is supposed to have always been independent. --Aiki (talk) 06:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
- Agree, let's ignore 'de la République places for the time being. --Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Public figures
Below are some names I've noted from places, mainly in Nemans:
| Name | Surname | Occupation | Dates | Note |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Auréline | Personification of Valonne (alike Marianne)? | |||
| Georges | Bêches | |||
| César | Binet | |||
| Lucien | Dalasque | Author | ~1850s | |
| Bernard | de l'Aïc | |||
| Edmond | de Remmeau | Philanthropist | ~1880s-1920s | |
| Léopold | Decazes | |||
| ? | d'Estienne Tour | |||
| Léonard | d'Ouaisie | |||
| ? | Ducelle | |||
| Alphonse | Durant | |||
| Michelle | Frochot | |||
| Philippe | Le Bon | Ruler | ||
| Roger | Le Grand | Ruler | ||
| Joseph-Antoine | Marbois | Marshal | 18th century | In Nemans: street, statue and lycée |
| Étienne | Ruau | |||
| Hippolyte | Sudreau | |||
| Arnoulet XII Maindedieu (Hand of God) | Lerlac (idea) | Emperor | ||
| Antoine | Vallebourg | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Bernard | Tessine | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Nicolas | Bonille | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Rudolph | Laumer | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres The French equivalent of Rudolph is Rodolphe--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
| Louis | Roullac | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Victoire | Pommier | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Albertine | Ramier | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Gabrielle | Garcia | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Leonie | Vaillant | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Léonie takes an accute accent: Léonie Vaillant--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
| Miriam | Eschberger | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Myriam is the traditional spelling of the name. I suppose, in the 19th century, this would have been respected, especially at a time when names and surnames were still "acclimatized"--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
| Jean | Piret | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Alexandre | Dupont | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Rosalie | Teyes | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Cécile | Fleur | Author, pseudonym | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Yvette | Bertrand | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Charles | Vernaye | Author, activist | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Silvain | Arthur | Author | 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres Sylvain with a "y" is the usual French spelling: Sylvain Arthur--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |
| Amélie | Catou | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Alexandre | Chradon | Author, of Iviran origin | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Jeanne | Modny | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Louis | Saint-Reiss | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Stéphanie | Martin | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Georges | Dupont | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Antoine | Lauzerbourg | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Jean | Saint-Guibert | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Pierre | Puleau | Author | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Sophie | Thauvin | Peace activist | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres |
| Marc | Hércourt | Peace activist | late 19th century | Created by Mantan for the towns of Vervanne & Septarbres French of spelling refrains from using accents before two consonants: Marc Hercourt seems more natural--Aiki (talk) 05:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC) |