Forum:Official collaboratives/UL30c: Organisation of a Collab for a "Japanese" Homeland // 虚構の「日本国」のコラボレーションの組織化

Forums → Official collaboratives → Official collaboratives/UL30c: Organisation of a Collab for a "Japanese" Homeland // 虚構の「日本国」のコラボレーションの組織化

日本語 初めての方へ、プロジェクト概要について OpenGeoFictionへようこそ。OpenGeoFiction(以降、OGFにて省略)は、架空の地図（都市、国家など）が作成できる共同プラットフォームです。OGFのダイナミックなコミュニティは、幅広い背景、文化、職業、年齢層の趣味人で構成されています。私たちは、知識、経験、想像力を駆使して、現代を舞台に、リアリズム（現実性）を重視した空想の世界を作り上げるマッパーのコミュニティです。また、ここは鬼やエルフ、魔法や宇宙人といったファンタジーやSF的な要素のある惑星ではありません。むしろ、発電所や高速道路、住宅街、絵に出てくるような古い町並み、雄大な国立公園の地形、南国ビーチなどをOpen Street Map風に描写したいところです。 国際的な参加型プロジェクトのため、本サイトの基盤は英語になっております。 サイトポリシーと利用方法に関してはこちらをご覧ください。英語に抵抗がある方は、DeeplやGoogle翻訳などのサービスを使って簡単に翻訳することができます。 このフォーラムスレッドにコメントしたり、日本語でメッセージを書き込んでもOK! 他のユーザーが翻訳して、自分の国の言葉で答えてくれます。 早速ですが、「興味があるが、どうすれば参加できますか？」という方は引き以下をご確認ください。 本wikiのアカウントを登録するには、まずここでOGFに登録し、管理者チームにメッセージを送ってください「Please, enable my wiki account」のようなメッセージを送信してください。 そうするとWikiにアクセスできるパスワードがメールで届きます。使い方は通常のＷｉｋｉｐｅｄｉａと同じです。 本ページのフォーラムスレッドでは、コラボプロジェクトを企画したいと思います。コラボでは、複数のメンバーが一つの国に対して共同で作業を行います。 周辺の文化圏を考慮し、この用地（横長の日本を連想させるような半島）は日本語が使われる架空の国として指定されています。しかし、一番大きな課題は、日本人のユーザーの少なさです。ちらほら参加するユーザーが見受けられますが、エンゲージメントが足りないのか、一般的にサイトのｌ使い方がよくわからないせいか、本プロジェクトが中々本気になりませんので、非常に残念です。このプロジェクトに少しだけでも参加することに興味がある方は、以下にコメントしてください。こちらから精一杯サポートさせていただきます（ちなみに、この文章の作家は日本在住の外国人です）。 プロジェクトの概要 日本をテーマにした新しい国（UL30c）にはまだ名前が決まっておりません。このスレッドの目的は、実際のコラボレーションを開始することではありません。まず、一般的な議論を促進し、コミュニティの中で興味を持つメンバーが十分に多いかどうかを判断したいと思います。最終的にコラボを開始するためには、少なくとも以下のメンバーがマッピング活動のかなりの部分を投資することに興味を持つことが理想的です。 3人のアクティブなメンバー 日本語がほぼ流暢なメンバー1名 高品質なマッピングの経験を持つ2人 他の主要な活動領域が1つ以下である2人 UL30cは、ウレタ南東部（日本語から部分的にインスピレーションを受けたコンラングスを使用する多くの国がある地域）とアルカンタ北部（中国語を話す祖国であり、現実の日本と同じように漢字が東ウレタに広まった可能性がある）の間にあるため、日本の故郷として選ばれています。現実世界の日本よりやや熱帯の気候にあり、総面積は小さい。現実世界の日本同様、海洋国家である。UL30cの現在のスケッチは議論の出発点に過ぎず、後でコラボのメンバーによって修正される可能性があります。 ディスカッションのための質問 このスレッドでは、以下のトピックについて議論したいと思います。 Q1: このコラボレーションに参加したいと思うのは誰ですか？ Q2：国の名前は何になるのでしょうか？ Q3: UL30cは現実の日本とどのように違うのでしょうか、または違うべきでしょうか？ 同じであるべき：言語、宗教... 異なる可能性：社会、経済、政府、インフラ... 間違いなく違う：気候、サイズ... Q4: コラボレーションはどのように構成されるべきですか？ 言語の一貫性を確保するために、メンバー間の協力が特に必要でしょう。 Q5: 日本人のフィクション・マッピング経験者にアプローチするにはどうしたらよいでしょうか？ どう始めればいいですか？ 簡単ですよ！まずは、Open Geofictionにサインアップしてください。 サインアップしたら、日本語対応ユーザーにプライベートメッセージを送信してください。 Izaland Terramorphing Committee Kengoman こちらから誘導させていただきます。皆さんの参加をお待ちしています！ タイムライン（目標） 以下は当初の目標でしたが、現状はあいにくあまり大きく動いていません。 2023年3月～　練習エリアとして最東端の島のみ特別開放 2023年6月初旬　国名投票予定（Googleアンケート等を用いて） 2023年6月中旬～下旬　UL30c(仮)の方向性に関するディスカッション 2023年7月初旬　サブエリア（県、洲、國？等）の個人による申請を可能に　同時に共同作業にて、首都の開発も始動

English Introduction to newcomers Hello! Welcome to OpenGeoFiction. OGF is a collaborative platform for creating fictional maps. OpenGeofiction's dynamic community of hobbyists comes from a wide range of backgrounds, cultures, occupations, and ages. We are a community of mappers that uses our knowledge, experience, and imagination to craft a fictional world, set in modern times and with an emphasis on realism. Our world is not a planet with fantastical or science-fiction elements, like orcs, elves, or aliens. Rather, it features power plants, motorways, and housing projects juxtaposed with picturesque old towns, beautiful national parks, and lonely beaches. Most of the website's documention is in English. Click here for the site policies and getting started. If you don't feel uncomfortable using English, it can be translated easily using services such as Deepl, Google Translate or others. You can comment on this thread or write messages in Japanese! Other users will translate it and answer in their own language. To register a wiki account, first register for OGF here and then send a message to the admin-team. In this forum-thread, we want to plan a collaborative project. In a collab, several members work together on one country. We want to create a fictional Japanese speaking country in this location. However we currently have only very few members who speak good Japanese. If you speak Japanese and are interested in participating in this project, comment below. Project outline The new Japanese themed country (UL30c) has no name yet. The purpose of this thread is not (yet) to start the actual collab! We would first like to foster some general discussion and estimate if there are sufficiently many interested members in the community. For the collab to eventually start, ideally at least the following number of members should be interested to investing a substantial amount of their mapping activity: three active mappers one of them being (near) native in Japanese two of them with substantial high-quality mapping experience two of them with not more than one other major active territory UL30c has been chosen as the location for a Japanese homeland, because it lies between south-east Uletha (a region with many countries that use conlangs partially inspired by Japanese) and northern Archanta (the Chinese speaking homeland from where Chinese characters could have spread to East Uletha similar to what happened in real-world Japan). It is situated in a slightly more tropical climate than real-world Japan and is smaller in total area. Like real-world Japan it is a very maritime country. The current sketch of UL30c is only a starting point for discussion and may be modified by the members of the collab later. Questions for discussion In this thread, we want to discuss the following topics: Q1: Who would be extremely - very - a little interested in being part of the collaboration? Q2: What could the country's name be? Q3: In what ways would or should UL30c explicitly be different than real-world Japan? Needed to be the same: language, religion... Possibly different: society, economy, government, infrastructure... Definitely different: climate, size... Q4: How should the collab be organized? There will be a special need for cooperation among the members to ensure language consistency. Q5: How could we reach (more) native Japanese people with experience in fictional mapping? Project timeline (tentative) March 2023- Only the easternmost island is available as a special practice area Early June 2023 Scheduled voting of country name (using Google survey, etc.) Mid to late June 2023 Discussion regarding the draft plan for UL30c ( provisional) Early July 2023: Start of assignments of the sub-areas (prefectures, provinces, states, countries? At the same time, start development of the capital city through collaborative work.

Ul30c(b)の現状（2024年9月現在） 現在、実験的にUL30cの一部であるUL30cbのみ一般公開しています。 こちらは北海道の形に似た島で、練習エリアとして利用されます。 練習エリアというのは、まずは初心者やプロジェクトに初めてアプローチしたユーザーが自由にいろいろトライしていただける意味です。 プロジェクトが本格化したら、内容が変わることもあります。

Current situation of Ul30c(b) ad of Sep, 2024 Currently, only UL30cb, part of UL30c, is open to the public on an experimental basis. This is an island similar to the shape of Hokkaido and is used as a practice area. By practice area, we mean that, first of all, beginners and users who approach the project for the first time can freely try out various things. Once the project is in full swing, the content may change.

Loading map...

{"markers":[{"pos":[{"lat":30.569,"lon":133.86}],"title":"\u54c1\u5ca1\u5e02/Shinaoka city","text":"\u5730\u65b9\u306e\u4e3b\u8981\u90fd\u5e02\u3067\u3059\u3002\u4eba\u53e3\u306f100\u4e07\u4eba\u3092\u8d85\u3048\u3001\u90fd\u5e02\u570f\u306e\u4eba\u53e3\u306f\u7d04200\u4e07\u4eba\u3068\u60f3\u5b9a\u3055\u308c\u307e\u3059\u3002\u003C/br\u003EIt is a major regional city. The population is estimated at over 1 million and the metropolitan area has a population of approximately 2 million."},{"pos":[{"lat":32.001,"lon":132.948}],"title":"\u7121\u540d\u534a\u5cf6/Unnamed peninsula","text":"\u5b9f\u969b\u306e\u65e5\u672c\u306b\u306f\u306a\u3044\u7279\u5fb4\u3092\u6301\u3064\u8208\u5473\u6df1\u3044\u5730\u5f62\u3067\u3059\u3002\u30a4\u30e1\u30fc\u30b8\u306f\u30d0\u30cf\u30de\u8af8\u56fd\u3084\u30d5\u30ed\u30ea\u30c0\u5dde\u306e\u30ad\u30fc\u30a4\u30fc\u30b9\u30c8\u304c\u8fd1\u3044\u3067\u3059\u3002\u003C/br\u003EIt is an interesting geography with features not found in actual Japan. The concept is similar to the Bahamas and Key East, Florida."}],"tileLayer":"//{s}.tile.openstreetmap.org/{z}/{x}/{y}.png","attribution":"\u0026copy; \u003Ca href=\"http://osm.org/copyright\"\u003EOpenStreetMap\u003C/a\u003E contributors","zoom":"8","center":{"lat":30.503,"lon":134.201}}

Discussion (write in any language! どんな言語でもＯＫ！)

Example comment

First comment (sign your comment by typing four "~" symbols at the end of your message before clicking send).

indent your replies by using ":", and don't forget to sign them as well.

（例） これはコメントの一例です。コメントを入力しましたら、「~」を入れて、ご署名を御忘れずに。 ご自身の回答を追加するとき、「:」で初めてください（１マス空きますので、読みやすくなります。）--Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 14:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Q1 (Interested mappers)

Izaland Terramorphing Committee.

Since I already own as the main country Izaland, and I am the coordinator for the Plevia project, I wouldn't have enough energies and time to map extensively in this new country. However, I would like to be able to take part to all the crucial decisions about the country, and considering that I am proficient in Japanese, act as a supervisor / communications helper between the potential users and the OGF community /neigboor countries.--Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 14:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Kengoman

Well me and Izaland has been working together to recruit Japanese mappers. Similarily I also don't have the time to map extensively here but I can help deal with the logistics of the language barrier (much like how I'm dealing with Huaxia) Kengoman (talk) 13:09, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

mikumikumapper.

hewwo there (≧▽≦)/ ik I may not be able to get involved at times due to rl but still I'm pretty interested in decisionmaking for this collab and also find it a perfect opportunity to get better at my mapping skills during whatever free time I've got (つ≧▽≦)つ (btw I'm currently learning Japanese at some level between beginner and intermediate so there you go ヾ(・ω・*)) Mikumikumapper (talk) 10:35, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Martinawa

As a mapper of one of the few Japanese-speaking (partly) territories in OGF, I'd totally be interested on taking up the challenge and help with a Japanese homeland project, and I think it would enrich the future of both the collab and my territory itself. I could offer support especially on the natural side of things first, establishing a topography or offering support in the climatic classification of the area, before further commitment in the form of urban/regional mapping. --Martinawa (talk) 10:52, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Eba Yonami

Hello, I am Japanese fictional mapper invited by Izarand. There are community of fictional map in Japan, which shares similar concepts with this project. I am interested in this collaborative project because I created fictional map alone. I will be glad to support mapping in terms of language, cultures and infrastructures. Y Eba (talk) 15:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Q2 (Country name)

(the names could be reused for prefectures and towns)

watashino suggestion:

• Tsukiriku (Japanese name in romaji)
• 月陸 (Japanese name in kanji)
• つきおか (Japanese name in hiragana)
• "land of the moon" (literal meaning of the Japanese name)
• Yuerluvia (English name derived from the Mandarin pronunciation of 月陸 - yue-lu - and the -ia suffix)

it's similar to how RW Japan got its English name from yat-bun which is the Cantonese way of saying 日本 (which in Japanese pronunciation would be nihon) so... you get the idea (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ Mikumikumapper (talk) 10:35, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

idk how you got Tsukioka from the kanji but ok... there's better ways of coming up with the original Japanese name, the kanji are usually not the literal meaning nor the root of the names irl. Better to have more people have a brainstorm session on this. Kengoman (talk) 12:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

I think 「つきおか」 is good idea, it implies "the place of moon", while 「日本」impies "the place where sun rises". More discussion is need to decide the name in Kanji, or English names. For example the word 「おか」can be translated into Kanji as 「岡」「丘」「陸」「邱」「阜」 --Y Eba (talk) 15:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Other suggestions raised from past discussions in discord, bringing over here:

Izaland: By the way, found a generator for Japanese place names. You can choose to make it generate a country name, province, temple etc. Among the different outputs, I took a couple of kanji myself, and made:

• 遥堺, literally (far (or, extended, difficult to travel due to the geography, in this case the islands)) - territory, and border, boundary, with extension, territory. The original kanji is 境, while 堺 is a derivation, now only used for 堺市 (Sakai city, in Osaka Pref.).
• 遥堺 shall be read さまあき (Samaaki), an ateji reading (partially taken from the "samayo-u" reading of the first kanji, and (sa[k]a)i of the second one.

Myself (generated from the generator):

• 友植
• 喜垣
• 附關
• 早川
• 月川
• 平松
• 増王
• 苓中
• 作露
• 調石
• 八興
• 朱道
• 礼空
• 由津
• 花湾
• 花海道
• 浮夏
• 浮暖

Other ideas raised:

• I am also a bit skeptical about 東... It is not exactly the easternmost country, as Japan was for the old world. So we may have peach blossoms instead? Hmm maybe also Peach is not the best. For that latitude, hibiscus, Pawlounia, Frangipani, Bouganvillea flowers would be probably found. Peaches do not grow in subtropical areas. Like 花[smth] will work. Or something related with fruit 果
• Generally East Asian country names at least for me refers to the geography, race or dynasty. China is Zhongguo, South Korean is Great Han Republic, North Korea is after Joseon, Japan is for its position at the east to reflect the Rising Sun
• I would go with something close to the concept of island, or sea
• 豐島 for the easternmost island? Or, something that connects with the peninsula extremity. Something including 崎

My preference is: A character that reflects the geography and another character that reflects a common trait or reflective of smth significant in the country culture in general (e.g. flowers, sun).--Zhenkang (talk) 13:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

For "豐島": Just a remind that there has been a province called 丰岛 in Huaxia, which means many islands... (although I don't mind duplicate name.)

I'd like 海雲 for clouds on the sea if you like the shape. --NM$l (talk) 09:39, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Q3 (Differences to RW Japan)

Just thought of sharing my thoughts on how different this Japan could be. I'm imagining a less urbanised Japan. Perhaps much less rich than the Japan we know of. The capital and major port could be the more affluent parts of the country, while the rest is less developed. But I doubt the Japanese mappers might be very keen on this idea, given it will be rather unimaginable of a poorer Japan. A Japan that might have industrialised late. --Zhenkang (talk) 09:40, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

...

yeah reading this I was pretty much thinking this should be a less affluent country than RW Japan so I surmise it could be more of a newly industrialized economy (o^ ^o) Mikumikumapper (talk) 12:23, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Guys keep in mind that this project will not succeed without the Japanese mappers who will map them (and who we are actively trying to recruit irl in actual Japan), so it would have to be a suggestion that they will be cool with. Now in terms of late industrialization, "Early Showa Era Japan" is a theme that everyone is interested in, and moreso "Before the war early Showa Era Japan" so it could be a setup similar to that. Kengoman (talk) 13:09, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

okie... so I agree a Japanese homeland project at newly industrialized economy levels should be more like RW Japan in the early Showa era (◕‿◕)♡ (but probably without the empire aspect that defined pre-1945 Showa Japan) Mikumikumapper (talk) 13:33, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

The empire thing (at least the nationalism part) is why people even recall that aspect of history. Although the invasion and genocide part can be removed. Better era comparison is probably late Meiji/Taisho in terms of culture, although economically more like 1970's. Kengoman (talk) 12:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Q4 (Collab organisation)

【EN】After presenting OGF to a number of Japanese fantasy mappers, I think we are closer to the starting of this project. To make the candidate territory more appealing to the future mappers, I discussed with Leowezy about pre-opening part of UL30c as a collaborative Japanese language nation. The area I selected for this experiment (where the Japanese mappers could directly try out some of their skills) would be the easternmost island shaped like Hokkaido. After some days or weeks of practice in the area, those willing to proceed with the whole country would discuss with other non Japanese interested members about how to develop this new nation. Feedback welcome!

【JA】先日、日本人の空想地図作家の方々にOGFを紹介し、ご興味を持ってくださった方が何人かいらっしゃいました。 日本語で制作していく地域（UL30c）をより求めやすくするように、最初から一部（北海道に近い東にある島）を先行開放することを提案します。 OGFを試したい方に、こちらで数日間（数週間）制作を試していただき、続く意思があれば、興味がある既存OGFメンバーと一緒に国のコンセプトを磨き、本格化を目指したいと思います。 ご感想をお待ちしております！ --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 14:41, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

I like this idea. Would anyone else be interested in joining for such a collab "test-run"? Leowezy (talk) 18:22, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. How are you going to proceed? Can you make only this island a blue collaborative territory, maybe with "編集可能!" like those language constrained blue territories in Archanta?

Here is the list of the interested users:

• Izaland --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 13:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
• Y_Eba --Y Eba (talk) 15:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
• User 3...

Q5 (Outreach)

so I was thinking as part of outreach why not promote this project on social media by targeting our promo towards people living in Japan who're interested in maps and worldbuilding and stuff like that? also I have some Japanese friends at my high school that I could promote this to so... you get the idea (◕‿◕)♡ Mikumikumapper (talk) 13:25, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

That is exactly what me and Izaland has been doing. If you can get Japanese people interested in your location that'll be cool too, just make sure to not be too overbearing with your promotion. Kengoman (talk) 12:48, 26 January 2023 (UTC)