Forum:Tarephia Cooperation Council/Headquarters Location

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New Headquarters?

Previously, the headquarters for the TCC was located in Cordoba, Latina. However, as Latina is inactive and archived, I propose moving the HQ elsewhere. There are a few options for this:

1: To not move the HQ.

2: To move the HQ to another city in an active and well-mapped TCC member (that makes canonical sense).

3: To not have any permanent headquarters, and instead have the secretariat reside in their own country (as the position of the secretariat rotates between countries).

To me, option two makes the most sense, as Latina was never a very committed member of the TCC to begin with, from my understanding, and as the headquarters is not mapped in great detail there I think it makes far more sense to move it to another country. We'd have to get permission from histor if we end up going through with this (minor) change. Option three seems like too great of a level of decentralization. Once we decide the route we'd like to take, we can figure out the new location of the HQ if needed. --Lithium-Ion (talk) 16:47, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

In my opinion, 2 makes the most sense. I propose Hexagonia City, since it's a nice, “neutral” city, already hosting the Tarephian AN and other international organisations. --Tito zz (talk) 17:12, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I think it's worth noting that Histor surrendered his Archantan territories specifically to focus on Latina, so there is the possibility that it may become significantly less inactive in coming times. It would be worth asking his plans moving forward before discounting the possibility of option 1, especially if he intends to rework/improve Latina up to his current standards. Additionally, I have to express concern about Hexagonia City as a potential headquarters. No disrespect to Chazeltine or to Tigeria, but it does feel like Hexagonia has already claimed a very disproportionate amount of TCC related powers and other international organizations, especially for its size. As such, my strong preference would be for some other city/country besides Hexagonia/Tigeria to have the TCC headquarters if it was moved. Cordoba or elsewhere in Latina itself remains a comparatively neutral option. If not that, I know ParAvion planned to offer up Saviso for the headquarters, which I'd support if moved forward with. Others have raised Quentinsburgh to me, but for the sake of fairness as its mapper, I'm not going to express a preference for it. --Ernestpkirby (talk) 23:45, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Esspecially if what Ernestpkirby said is true (that Latina will be reworked), I also lean towards Option 1. Latina is the biggest, and probably the most powerful country in Tarephia. It makes sense to have the HQ there. Tigeria already has a lot of institutions, so it wouldn't be right to put it there. I wouldn't mind offering Bestagen, Eicarl as an option, but believe that Latina is the better option. We should still have a national HQ in each country, though. We can also make a list of all the national HQ in each country.

--Fifafo (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I will agree with Ernest, Latina had its time with the TCC headquarter and Hexagonia already has many so would be good to decide on a place like Quentinsburgh or Trevers, well mapped cities and closer to the center of the Lyc. Brunanter (talk) 01:14, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Would you mind linking the locations to all the cities proposed? Thanks! --Fifafo (talk) 04:49, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

[1] Saviso (Vodeo), by ParAvion

[2] Quentinsburgh (Free Reedemia), my own mapping

[3] Trevers (Paroy), by PortCal

[4] Catamia (Allendea), proposed on the discord since it would have been a planned city in a new democracy at the time (TitoZZ's still working on mapping the area)

[5] Hexagonia City (Tigeria), though Chazeltine (its mapper) also seemed to endorse showcasing somewhere other than Hexagonia as well so it seems there is some consensus that Hexagonia has a lot of institutions already

--Ernestpkirby (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

I like Option 2: Move the HQ to another city in an active and well-mapped TCC member (that makes canonical sense). I can see why the concentration of institutions in Hexagonia City makes it a good candidate (I appreciate the consideration!), but I would encourage choosing another city. I also think that this is an excellent opportunity to add mapping detail to some city in the region which doesn’t have much detail yet and relocate the TCC headquarters there. Or you can use the TCC headquarters to showcase another city in the TCC. There are many good candidates to consider, including the four which Ernest linked (Saviso, Quentinsburgh, Trevers, Catamia) Chazeltine (talk) 13:13, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I'd lean toward Option 2 in this case, I think it makes sense to move the TCC Headquarters (or at least, the main administrative facilities of the TCC and hereby referred to as "the facilities") to a city that is more active in (and therefore more relevant to) the current state of the TCC. For me, the three finalist cities (in alphabetical order) to host the facilities would be:

• Catamia, Allendea - If history is to be written the way Tito_zz has posed in other discussion channels, hosting the facilities in Catamia would be a symbolic icon that the region has recovered from a turbulent past, and is looking forward to a continued peace and a direction toward prosperity in the region.
• Quentinsburgh, Freedemia - As a large city situated in the approximate geographic centre of the Straits of Lyc, Quentinsburgh has going for it many positive attributes: it is a vibrant and diverse metropolis in a very stable country that has endured and prospered through a turbulent history. Another interesting point about Quentinsburgh is that hosting the facilities for the TCC in Freedemia echoes the unity felt between the different people groups during the unification of Free Reedemia to find common cause in spite of their differences.
• Trevers, Paroy - Now I don't know much about Trevers (or much about Paroy at all, unfortunately), but I find that Trevers and Quentinsburgh have very similar stories: they are both well-mapped, developed cities in the central area of the Lyc (sorry Vodeo) that are in very stable and prosperous countries. I think Trevers makes just as good a case as Quentinsburgh in the bid for the facilities.

This is just my opinion, but hopefully it can help us come to some sort of accordance. - Thanks, Zekiel (talk) 07:45, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Should we proceed to voting? Fifafo (talk) 17:55, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could have the three cities (Catamia, Quentinsburgh, Trevers) share the secretariat duties and leave it to Tito_zz, Ernestpkirby, and PortCal to decide the final details on the map. Chazeltine (talk) 15:44, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

It'd be nice to get a consensus on this. Something that would make sense to me is placing the Tarephian Forum in Catamia, the secretariat in Quentinsburgh, and then additional administrative buildings in Trevers. Could we get some thoughts - especially from the mappers most involved would be nice! --Lithium-Ion (talk) 03:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I have to vote for a city in Barzona, but dividing the offices like this plan isn't bad. I do think its a good plan to move the headquarters from Latina at least to more active countries at this time. Brunanter (talk) 07:42, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

To boost this conversation- dividing the Tarephian Forum, Secretariat, and additional admin buildings among different candidate cities sounds like a viable and fair solution to me! I am a bit unsure about the logistics (how do these units need to interact with each other? Will there need to be a lot of travel or geographic connection between these functions) but as a whole would support the concept. --Ernestpkirby (talk) 11:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

My main problem with the TCC being divided up as proposed is that everything is being concentrated around the Lycene countries. I'm aware that that is where the majority of Tarephian mappers are active, but in-world, wouldn't it make more sense to spread things out a bit more? ParAvion (talk) 11:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

This is a fair point, but looking at the map it seems heavily implied that 1) the majority of founding TCC members (and as of now, of members in general) were also located around the Lycene or otherwise in the southern part of the continent, and 2) most theoretical central locations are both unclaimed and explicitly sort of recommended as desert/less developed. I could see an argument for some sort of newer HQ aspect placed in northern Vodeo to explicitly help bridge to the north as newer countries joined, but bar massive change I don't imagine the center of power ever shifting so far away from the Lyc for it to make sense completely central. Alternatively, Catamia+Trevers+Saviso seems to be a more representative set for the region than Catamia+Trevers+Quentinsburgh. I'm not opposed to letting Saviso (or Holme, etc) have the HQ functions that would have gone to Quentinsburgh. In either case though the TCC is still probably likely going to be weighted to the southern part of the continent in some ways for any forseeable future (which even Vodeo & Costa Azul are arguably part of that southern bloc) --Ernestpkirby (talk) 12:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I'd say go forth and put the concept on the map--it's been eleven months since the last response, and I think all interested folks have shared their thoughts. Chazeltine (talk) 17:49, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to make one tweak to the proposal here. The one piece of opposition we previously got to this plan was from ParAvion about bunching in the lower Lycene area, and I'd since talked to Davieerr who felt like Tempeira wasn't as involved/integrated into the TCC as he would like. Geographically, Trevers and Quentinsburgh are pretty close to each other and are very much in the same part of the region. I personally am not very attached to the idea of Quentinsburgh hosting part of the headquarters, though I am honored to have it suggested. I'd like to counterpropose keeping Catamia, Allendea and Trevers, Paroy but moving piece three to Tileia, Tempeira see map instead of Quentinsurgh. This would help the geographic spread issue, as Tileia is in central-ish Tempeira closer to Vodeo and northern countries and covers the "third side of the Lyc" in a sense.

A quick diagram of how Tileia would better cover the Lycene portion of the TCC while reaching better to the north

In speaking with Davieerr on Discord, he explained that "Tileia is [an] ancient region in the central Sitian valley that has a lot of involvement with agriculture and education in industrial subjects. The city was made capital of the Indigenous Republic and became very influential for politics, so many elites live/lived in the city. One of it's satellite cities has the biggest industrial park in the country." He went on to add that within that indigenous history, Tileia is "a city [where] republicanism was very present even before some more modern republics", which could make it a strong candidate standing for peace and democracy in the region. While not currently super detailed, it has a very strong framework on the map when considering its surroundings, room for flexibility in adding in details related to the headquarters and TCC presence, and we've seen enough of Davieerr's mapping in places like Restinga see map to know that he can map detailed mapping well. The only concern I personally would have with this is timeline, as Tempeira is currently listed as not joining the TCC until 1989, 5 years after founding. I've asked Davieerr about this to see if there can be a compromise if this goes forward to move that joining date back just far enough to justify part of the headquarters being there (perhaps Qburgh temporarily held the functions before a permanent campus or building was constructed). --Ernestpkirby (talk) 08:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I think if we're going to continue the narrative that the TCC was founded in the Lycene region and gradually expanded north as transcontinental membership grew, maybe we could consider restructuring the TCC into headquarters + administrative districts in the late 1990s/early 2000s for 1) effective regional administration (meta) and 2) additional mapping opportunities for mappers in the north and Urthyra region of Tarephia (real-world) Chazeltine (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I think there was already an understanding that all member countries would (or could) have national headquarters, so don't really think that extra district layer between national and regional is necessary to have mapping opportunities in those areas. --Ernestpkirby (talk) 10:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Semifinal Proposal

Here's the semifinal headquarters idea summarizing/synthesizing points of discussion:

"Catamia, Allendea and Trevers, Paroy were selected to host the Secretariat and Tarephian Forum respectively. While Quentinsburgh, Freedemia was originally considered for the Tarephian Forum, domestic hesitancy surrounding regional collaboration and globalization led Freedemian leaders to decline hosting to allow for flexibility in leaving the TCC at a later time. Vodeo, the northernmost founding member, had also pushed to host, expressing concern at an unreasonable favoritism towards southern Lycene nations. However, with concerns from other members about Vodeo's continued strong ties to Ingerland and all other founding members being located around the Lyc, Vodeo was not chosen.

The organization continued to expand, and by the end of 1989, seven additional countries had joined the TCC, four of which were located in the northern Lycene. The new influx led to the TCC outgrowing their initial two headquarters, and TCC leaders made the decision to add an additional headquarters in a third city. Vodean leaders pushed strongly for a location that would better represent the entire area of the TCC. With most new members now being located further north, the majority of TCC members agreed. Tileia, Tempeira, a city with a long history of indigenous republicanism and located near the new geographic center of the TCC at the time, was chosen to host the TCC Central Offices."

Wanted to put it here for people on the forum to open for final comments or objections from Tarephians only on the wiki. --Ernestpkirby (talk) 20:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Seeing no other comments or objections for seven days, I think the proposal can be finalized as is so that we can bring this years-long discussion to a close. Thanks for facilitating the final details, Ernest! Chazeltine (talk) 16:21, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Hooray! Only took two short years to decide lol. I've updated the wiki page. --Lithium-Ion | [6] (talk) 18:25, 5 April 2024 (UTC)