Forum:Valonne/Drapeau national et armoiries - National flag and coat of arms

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FR - Ceci est la page forum du projet collaboratif Valonne. Pour la documentation officielle du projet, veuillez visiter la page du projet.
EN - This is the forum page for the Valonne collaborative project. For the project's official documentation please visit Collab page.
Flag of France.svg
Le drapeau national de la Valonne doit être facilement reconnaissable, comme l'est le drapeau français dans le monde réel. La sélection des couleurs, le style et le rapport de taille peuvent être conçus en fonction des préférences de chacun. Les seules règles sont les suivantes :
  • Ne reproduire en aucun cas le drapeau français sous quelque forme que ce soit ou les drapeaux des subdivisions françaises (par exemple, Occitanie, Bretagne, Normandie, etc.). En bref, soyez original et créatif.
  • Ne rendez pas le drapeau trop complexe. Un bon exemple de drapeau complexe mais élégant est celui du Castellan.
  • Les drapeaux trop simples sont également les bienvenus. OGF a étonnamment peu de drapeaux simples par rapport au monde réel. Un bon exemple de drapeau simple mais impressionnant est celui de la Plevie.
 Flag of the United Kingdom.svg
The national flag of Valonne should be easily recognizable, similar to how the French flag is in the real world. The color selection, style, and size ratio can be designed according to everyone's preferences. The only rules are:
  • Do not, under any circumstances, replicate the French flag in any form or the flags of French subdivisions (e.g., Occitania, Brittany, Normandy, etc.). In short, be original and creative.
  • Do not make the flag overly complex. A good example of a complex yet elegant flag is the flag of Castellan.
  • Overly simple flags are also very welcome. OGF has surprisingly few simple flags compared to the real world. A good example of a simple yet stunning flag is that of Plevia.

Propositions de drapeau / Flag proposals

FR - LE VOTE EST TERMINÉ - Les gagnants sont:
  • Proposition n°5 - pour le drapeau national de la Valonne, soumis par l'utilisateur Bixelkoven,
  • Proposition n°2 - pour les armoiries nationales de la Valonne, soumis par l'utilisateur Bixelkoven. La nuance de la couleur a été modifiée pour correspondre à celle du drapeau.

Les propositions n° 3 et 11 (pour le drapeau) ainsi que la proposition n° 3 (pour les armoiries) seront réutilisées dans d'autres domaines, car elles ont également obtenu un nombre important de votes.

EN - THE VOTING HAS FINISHED - The winning entries are:

  • Proposal No. 5 - for the national flag of Valonne, submitted by user Bixelkoven,
  • Proposal No. 2 - for the national coat of arms of Valonne, submitted by user Bixelkoven. The shade of the color has been changed to match that of the flag.

Proposals No. 3 and 11 (for the flag), and Proposal No. 3 (for the coat of arms) will be reused in other areas, as they also got a significant amount of votes.

Voici les propositions gagnantes, merci à tous d'avoir voté ! / These are the winning proposals, thank you all for voting!:
FQ Bixelkoven proposal3.png ValonneDrapeau.png

Id. Drapeau / Flag Description / Description Auteur / Author
1
Flag of Franqueterre - proposal 01.png
 "Simple" flag design reminiscent of the older european flags. Davieerr
2
Flag of Franqueterre - proposal 02.png
 "Simple" flag design reminiscent of the "Roman" Empire simbols and colors. Davieerr
3
FQ Bixelkoven proposal1.png
 Simplistic flag. St. Andrew's cross, using green as a different color to the standard colors of France. Bixelkoven
4
FQ Bixelkoven proposal2.png
 Flag depicting a variation of a Celtic cross, alluding to the potential Celtic heritage. Can also be a depiction of some new denomination instead of Celtic. Bixelkoven
5
FQ Bixelkoven proposal3.png
 Very simple flag, simplification of a potential more complex medieval flag (in the same fashion as Poland and Monaco, for example). Experimenting with a different tincture than usual. Bixelkoven
6
VAL v1.png
 A tricolor featuring user Bixelkoven's coat of arms in the center. The colors were taken from user Varnel maiser's flag of DrapeauCAB.svg Cabelia, but the blue stripes were adjusted to be the same color as the field of the CoA. A version without the CoA could be more common outside of a formal setting. IiEarth
7
VAL v2.png
 Same as above, but this time the field is adjusted to match the blue used in the stripes. IiEarth
8
Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v1.png
 The coat of arms in the centre could be that of the Valonne royal family. The red stripes on either side symbolise the country's transition from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional or parliamentary monarchy. Paul Pfh
9
Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v2.png
 White is a symbol of purity and peace. In the centre is the country's coat of arms, the Royal Coat of Arms. Paul Pfh
10
Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v3.png
 ‘Royal Blue’, the symbolic colour of the royal family. In the centre is the country's coat of arms, the Royal Coat of Arms. Paul Pfh
11
Franqueterre mtw.svg
 Canadian pale of blue and gold, with a fleur de lis at its center as a charge. The fleur-de-lis is represented as a French heritage symbol in places like Quebec or New Orleans. Blue and gold as the representative colours, again, of French Heritage. In-universe, the fleur-de-lis could be represented as a "national flower" of the country, regardless of the arms. Martinawa

Propositions d'armoiries / Coat of arms proposals

Flag of France.svg Flag of the United Kingdom.svg
Veuillez ajouter vos motifs d'armoiries au bout du tableau, ajouter la signification du motif (facultatif) et assurez-vous de signer votre nom.

Le meilleur design sera sélectionné via un vote.

Please add your flag designs to the end of the table, add the design meaning (optional), and make sure to sign your name.

The best design will be select via a vote.

Armoiries / Coat of arms Description / Description Auteur / Author
CoAFQ Bixelkoven.png Heraldic coat of arms (does not allude that the country is a monarchy, but can be). The white eagle is imagined to be the main symbol of the entire country. The lesser coat of arms in the center is supposed to represent the various areas of the country with the largest one (with the castle, waterfall and the dove) representing the capital area. The coat of arms on the bottom has no defined meaning, but given that it is similar to the main part, only mirrored and with fewer details, it could represent some folklore image of a 'weaker Valonne' from the past. Bixelkoven
Coat of arms of the House of Este in 1239-1431.svg The variation without all the lesser coat of arms from the previous submission. Bixelkoven
Paul Pfh armoiries de franqueterre v1.2.png The royal blue and the crowned cockerel. Carried and protected by two angels. Paul Pfh

Vote / Voting

Vote (Drapeau) / Voting (Flag) ⸻ Votez pour 2 entrées ! / Vote for 2 entries!

  • Proposal 1 - Flag of Franqueterre - proposal 01.png
  1. BMSOUZA (talk) 19:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 2 - Flag of Franqueterre - proposal 02.png
  • Proposal 3 - FQ Bixelkoven proposal1.png
  1. ⸺ KAB (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. Mantan (talk) 15:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. Imperator (talk) 16:59, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. Newflanders (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 4 - FQ Bixelkoven proposal2.png
  1. ⸺ Martinawa (talk) 11:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. User:Lithium-Ion | [1] (talk) 01:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. Mtejku222 (talk) 07:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 5 - FQ Bixelkoven proposal3.png
  1. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 10:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. ⸺ KAB (talk) 20:14, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. wangi (talk) 11:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. Mantan (talk) 15:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  5. --IiEarth (talk) 20:39, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  6. Sweetykid (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  7. User:Lithium-Ion | [2] (talk) 00:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  8. — Alessa (talk) 02:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  9. --Aiki (talk) 04:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  10. Mtejku222 (talk) 07:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  11. Newflanders (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  12. ⸺ Paul Pfh (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
  13. Chazeltine (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  14. Imperator (talk) 07:36, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  15. ⸺Geoc3ladus (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
  16. Oneofbeatlefan (talk) 15:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  17. BMSOUZA (talk) 19:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 6 - VAL v1.png
  1. ParAvion (talk) 19:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 7 - VAL v2.png
  1. --IiEarth (talk) 15:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 01:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 8 - Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v1.png
  1. ParAvion (talk) 19:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 9 - Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v2.png
  1. ⸺ Paul Pfh (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 10 - Paul Pfh drapeau franqueterre v3.png
  • Proposal 11 - Franqueterre mtw.svg
  1. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 10:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. ⸺ Martinawa (talk) 11:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. Sweetykid (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. Chazeltine (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  5. ⸺Geoc3ladus (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2024 (UTC)
  6. ⸺Fayaan (talk)

Vote (Armoiries) / Voting (Coat of arms) ⸻ Votez pour 1 entrée ! / Vote for 1 entry!

  • Proposal 1 - CoAFQ Bixelkoven.png
  1. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 10:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. ⸺ KAB (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. --IiEarth (talk) 15:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. User:Lithium-Ion | [3] (talk) 00:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  5. ParAvion (talk) 19:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 2 - Coat of arms of the House of Este in 1239-1431.svg
  1. ⸺ Martinawa (talk) 11:58, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. Mantan (talk) 15:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. --Aiki (talk) 04:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. Mtejku222 (talk) 07:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  5. Chazeltine (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
  6. Oneofbeatlefan (talk) 15:42, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  7. Imperator (talk) 19:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  8. BMSOUZA (talk) 19:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Proposal 3 - Paul Pfh armoiries de franqueterre v1.2.png
  1. Sweetykid (talk) 21:12, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
  2. --Izaland Terramorphing Committee (talk) 01:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  3. Newflanders (talk) 11:18, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
  4. Paul Pfh (talk) 19:25, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Discussion / Discussion

Flag of France.svg Flag of the United Kingdom.svg
Utilisez l'espace ci-dessous pour discuter. Use the space below to discuss.

Flag of France.svg French

DISCUTER ICI

Flag of the United Kingdom.svg English

DISCUSS HERE

Coat of arms

Bixelkoven, I do like your proposals for the national coat of arms and its backstory. My main "concern" regards the rather rare use of eagles in French heraldry, compared to, let's say lions (same is true for English heraldry) and, the use of additional smaller shields. It seems using partitions of the main shield was more common. Otherwise, it looks all neat 👍. --Aiki (talk) 12:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

You are right when it comes to the lion, I haven't noticed the lack of eagles in French heraldry until you mentioned it (I only know the coat of arms of Nice has one, from memory). Though, is it bad to experiment and have a different approach to that of the real world? Also personally I prefer an eagle over a lion :P. As for the lesser sheilds, I was contemplating removing the one on the bottom, maybe even the other ones above the central shield. That is, if the coat of arms includes the lesser shield. The coat of arms is a complex item so we can think this through. We can even derive a flag from the coat of arms, like most modern flags came to be. Also, I am glad you like it. :) ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 16:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Wanted to mention that we can also experiment with other animals, not just an eagle or a lion. ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 16:36, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Eagles did become fashionable during Napoleon's Empire. https://wappenwiki.org/index.php/Empire_of_the_French
This is an imperial symbol though and makes sense after destroying the HRE and therefore taking Imperial status. It would make sense if there's a similar historical background.
This might give some inspiration for other common animals: https://wappenwiki.org/index.php/Francia -- 22:42, 17 September 2024 unsigned by Imperator.
@Bixelkoven, eagles are indeed much rarer in Western Europe compared to Central Europe. Nice was a dependency of the Dukes of Savoy and became French only in 1860. I don't know much about Italian Heraldry or if the Emperor had something to do with this eagle (at some point, the HRE ceased to nominally control northern Italy but Trieste area). That being said, I suppose we can have the silver eagle on a blue field in a major position on the shield (e.g. if parted quarterly like the UK, top left and bottom right like England or as an inescutcheon - over all in the middle). This can be the symbol of the reigning/former dynasty, a prestigious predecessor state or a important region/part of the country). I do like the bridge-like fortress, but, heraldry being rather strict on the use of neighbouring colours, the water should be white (example 1) or white and blue if you keep the field blue.
I would just advise against having a single eagle as supporter (like Austria, Serbia, Prussia, Russia...).
@Imperator, the use of the aigle romaine (roman eagle with lightnings) by Napoleon is to be seen more as the part of the general taste for anything roman during those decades (Neoclassical architecture, three consuls, Napoleon's coronation with a laurel wreath) than with the Holy Roman Empire. Except coats of arms of members of the noblesse d'empire (Napoleonic nobility), all the others (e.g. cities) reverted to their previous version.
--Aiki (talk) 11:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
@Aiki , you're right, the fall of the HRE actually takes place two years later. But wasn't Napoleon also strongly influenced by Charlemagne, I do remember reading that. "Once the Empire had been proclaimed, the Carolingian vogue was again to put to use, but this time as a repository for Napoleonic symbolism.  Napoleon preferred the “Aigle éployée” (the spread eagle) to the “reposing lion” chosen by the Council of State.  Of course, the noble bird of prey was first and foremost the emblem of Rome but the emperor of the West had used it, too, in his role as “reformer of the Roman empire”.  The latter's arms bore a gold eagle on an azure background, and this symbol had been placed on the top of the Aix-le-Chapelle palace, facing Germania (46)." “The spread eagle was Carolingian, the eagle at rest as found on the soldiers' ensigns were more Roman.” (Le Grand Empire, op.cit., p ; 26).
There's also Napoleon's visit to Aachen a mere two months prior to the coronation. https://www.napoleon.org/en/history-of-the-two-empires/articles/napoleon-and-charlemagne/
Imperator (talk) 00:26, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

If the shade of blue differs between the chosen flag and coat of arms, can we match the shades of blue to one or the other for consistency?Chazeltine (talk) 02:55, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

I think so, it would make sense. Which one will it be I am not sure how to decide (do we do another vote? :p). ⸺ Bixelkoven (talk) (West Uletha Admin) 23:45, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
I don't think that the shades need to match, but if people are adamant about it then the COA should be changed to match the flag - the color of the flag is a more important aspect of choosing it than the background color of the COA, if that makes sense. I know for me that if the shade of blue on the flag was different I would have likely picked another option. --User:Lithium-Ion | [4] (talk) 01:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Flags

Bixelkoven, your fifth proposal is quite fitting as the shade you used is close to bleu de France.--Aiki (talk) 11:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I know the design rules prohibit triband designs (the form of the French flag), but I do find proposals 6,7, and 11 to be incredibly compelling since they very closely resemble the clean design of the flag of Barbados. However, I would avoid the fleur-de-lis as a design element because it's a national symbol of France and the Francophone world. Chazeltine (talk) 21:04, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

For the flag design, I am partial to the fourth proposal in the list created by Bixelkoven. I do think it might be more aesthetically pleasing if it held the green or the blue from proposals 3 or 5. Thoughts? KAB (talk) 11:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

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